Instead, there's a large, extra-thick, triangular glass protuberance that extends dramatically below the chassis's vertical dimension. That's where you'll find an "on/off" button, the main unit's only physical switch.

A 4.3" TFT capacitive touch screen incorporated within that triangular glass panel controls all this preamp's functionality. The pushbutton remote control duplicates many but not all operations. More about that later.

The Commander is an unusually large, heavy, two-chassis design featuring an 84lb power-supply chassis and a 67lb signal/control chassis. Each chassis weighs more than many powerful power amplifiers and measures approximately 18" wide × 9" tall × 17" deep. (The control chassis is slightly deeper.)

All this mass and real estate just to provide some attenuation/ gain/buffering and to swap among its six inputs? Yes.

Consider the power supply. Within its massive aluminum chassis reside four custom-made 36VA toroidal transformers, two per channel, plus a large power-supply capacitor bank for each channel. Two of the four transformers (one per channel) are reserved for upcoming Gryphon source components; the well-considered thought is that if you're in on the Commander, you'll be in on the company's source components, too, and this way you won't need to purchase another separate power supply. Much of the signal-processing chassis weight goes to damping and resonance control.

The not-quite-40-year-old company has retained much of what went into the Pandora preamp, including its dual-mono layout—here in a single chassis, there in two separate chassis (four all together, including the Pandora's two outboard power supplies)—and its class-A input buffer consisting of just two transistors and a single resistor, implemented with zero global feedback. That, the company claims, produces sound that's "exceptionally transparent, fast, natural and open." Of course, that's what they all say! Gryphon claims the Commander improves upon the Pandora's widely recognized exceptional performance (I've not heard it), in part due to a new voltage reference, used in connection with the analog series regulators that supply the amplifier stages, that's said to be 50 times lower in noise. A pair of fully discrete, linear power supplies serve each channel's analog circuit, while a third feeds the digital control system; each connects to the control unit with its own umbilical. Gryphon avers "absolute" mechanical separation and electrical isolation between analog and digital sections.

The Commander's chassis incorporates a resonance-reducing, constrained-layer–damped bottom plate that sandwiches layers of Kerrock (a solid surface acrylic), bitumen, and steel. The amplifier and analog power supply circuit boards float on specially designed isolators, providing for that sensitive circuitry a "virtually vibration-free environment"—so says the accompanying press blurb. All this mass rests on four Gryphon "Atlas Spikes," which the company says "move resonance control even closer to theoretical perfection."

Experience has made me a believer in the sonic effects of vibrational energy on electronics—including solid state electronics. The spikes are also necessary to prevent the base of that front-panel triangle from becoming a fifth contact point.

Heatsink fin arrays on both the power supply and signal-processing chassis accentuate the dual-mono architecture and add a pleasing visual accent. Both arrays are topped by three-dimensional Gryphon insignias—dragons—which many will appreciate. Those who find them Harry Potter hokey can easily hide them under shelving.

Presentation, installation, and setup Before leaving for Georgia to participate in a major customer installation, Gryphon CEO Jakob Odgaard and sales director Rune Skov deposited in my garage a pair of heavy pressboard crates. Rather than wait for their return, I rolled the two crates into my room and unboxed them easily, thanks to innovative packaging that allows you to unlock the side panels and remove the components that way rather than excavating precious heavy metal vertically from cardboard boxes or crates.

Not to worry: If you purchase this $63,000 preamplifier, your dealer will attend to the installation—so I'll skip the rest of the description of what it took to hoist the control unit onto the HRS SXR rack shelf other than to write that Gryphon has devised a unique methodology to accomplish it without scratching or marring surfaces. I'll aver that for this much money, buyers deserve a top-quality, out-of-the-box presentation, and Gryphon delivers it. No need to elaborate further. I left the power supply on the floor—or rather, on a Symposium Acoustics platform that sat on the floor.

Rear panel facilities include four pairs of balanced, gold-plated Neutrik XLR inputs and two pairs of Gryphon's own Teflon-insulated RCA inputs, one of them labeled "(Tape)"; two pairs of balanced (XLR) outputs and one single-ended output pair—plus another stereo output pair labeled "TAPE." (In other words, there's a tape loop.) There's a USB jack for firmware updates, umbilical connectors for the three power-supply connections, 12V triggers in and out, and a pair of "Green Bias" connectors; when used with Gryphon amplifiers, Green Bias allows automatic switching among various levels of class-A bias. The rear panel layout is neatly configured with well-spaced jacks, aided by the additional real estate afforded by the generously sized chassis.

The Commander's insides include, in addition to the aforementioned two transistors per channel, class-A, discrete input buffers, an 85-step, microprocessor-controlled volume control incorporating Charcroft Z-Foil Audio ultraprecision-series resistors and ultralow-capacitance relays. Also inside is fully discrete, balanced, dual-differential, class-A line-stage circuitry followed by a symmetrical, class-A current-amplification stage, all on four-layer PCBs with copper traces up to 70µm thick, plus DC-servo coupling and premium Mundorf MCap ZN-foil capacitors used for local power supply decoupling—all said to result in improved transparency and spatiality. The internal layout is said to have been optimized to minimize wiring.

I ran the Commander "balanced out" to the darTZeel NHB 468 monoblocks using TARA Labs Zero interconnects. Configuring the preamp is straightforward, especially if you've ever set up a home theater receiver. Touch the glass panel's virtual "menu" button and select among 10 options including input-level matching, input naming, AV-input bypass (for home theater use), display intensity, and a few other settings of lesser importance, at least for the purposes of this review. Adjusting L–R balance requires you to go into the menu system and hit "Volume"; you'll then see a virtual slider. You can't adjust balance from your listening position, which turned out to be the Commander's most significant less-than-ideal feature. I suppose that, for $63,000, I'd also like to see a polarity inversion switch, assuming it wouldn't compromise sonic performance.

The TFT screen incorporates a proximity sensor that automatically switches format depending upon where you are standing. When you're more than a few feet away, the screen indicates the volume and selected input in large numbers and letters. Hit "Mute," and an "X" covers the volume numbers.

Approach the screen, and it changes to display smaller characters and more detail, showing the input lineup vertically along the screen's left side, the volume number and "up"/"down" icon on the screen's right side, and "Mute," "Monitor," and "Menu" in the center. Lightly pressing any of these virtual buttons produces the desired change in volume, input, etc. Which means that, when you're seated in your listening position, you see only the chosen input and not a full input listing, so until you've got them memorized by number (which won't take long), you'll be toggling through to find your choice. Again, not a big deal, but I'd bet on firmware version 2 they'll give you the option to change the screen view and perhaps also let you adjust balance from your seat.

The remote control is a nicely machined, heavy-in-the-hand device with an angled lower extremity aimed to make it more comfortable to hold (for right-handers at least) and a rubberized bottom pad to prevent furniture scratches. The logical, uncluttered layout obviates the need for backlighting. The top four buttons stacked two and two select "On/STB" (for "standby"; this button is red while the others are white); "Mute"; "Display"; and (tape) "Monitor." Below those and centered alone are the volume buttons: "Up"/"Down." The remote's bottom half has two rows of three input buttons (1,3,5 and 2,4,6) on the left and an "Up"/"Down" input selector on the right. The "Display" button lets you choose among four screen intensity levels, "Auto Off," and "Auto Dim."

Log in or register to post comments COMMENTS Gryphon Commander review Submitted by JohnE on June 17, 2022 - 1:09pm A comment and a question. A gryphon is not the same as a dragon. A dragon (as in St George and the dragon on Game of Thrones) has wings. A gryphon has two legs but no wings. Have you listened to a high-end passive preamplifier (Townshend Allegri Reference or Music First Reference V2) to compare them with the Gryphon sound quality? I would be interested in your comments. Log in or register to post comments Gryphon Commander review Submitted by JohnE on June 17, 2022 - 1:16pm Hmm, having checked Wikipedia I see that the gryphon is wingless only in British heraldary. The difference between a gryphon and a dragon is that the gryphon does not breathe fire. Log in or register to post comments ...the gryphon does not breathe fire Submitted by otaku on June 17, 2022 - 1:39pm I suppose that is a desirable attribute in a preamplifier. Log in or register to post comments To Quote Bob Cohen... Submitted by Jason Victor Serinus on June 17, 2022 - 3:37pm To quote Bob Cohen, former salesperson at The Cable Company, "You're not a true member of the Hi-End until you've had something blow up on you." From personal experience: Anyone desiring such an initiation might consider beta testing. It was my ticket to the dragon's breath. Log in or register to post comments Do speakers count? Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 7:02am I've roasted a few voicecoils before. But have not (yet) let the magic smoke out of an amp or preamp. Log in or register to post comments Wow!!!! $63K (to me is a very expensive source switch box) Submitted by georgehifi on June 17, 2022 - 5:21pm If the source has low output impedance (which most are) and enough voltage to clip the power amp. All that's needed if the source hasn't it's own volume control to go direct to amp with and to surpass this usd $63k!!! preamp's sound. Is to just use a quality passive pre, which, should be also be more dynamic, more transparent, more extended highs & lows, and have less distortion to boot, just like going direct should be if it has volume control. Cheers George Log in or register to post comments BINGO ! George. Submitted by Jack L on June 18, 2022 - 12:17pm Hi More electronics in the signal path, worse will be the music coming out of it at the expense of paying more. In this case, hopefully it won't be a $63,000 distortion generator that bad. Listening with own ears is beleiving Jack L Log in or register to post comments Schneider ElectricTM Recalls 1.4 Million Electrical Panels Submitted by Charles E Flynn on June 17, 2022 - 6:30pm I hope Mr. Fremer's gear is not affected. Schneider knows who got the products and will be contacting them. Schneider ElectricTM Recalls 1.4 Million Electrical Panels Due to Thermal Burn and Fire Hazards https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards Log in or register to post comments &#*(&@(%*^#$!@*(&%@ !!!! Submitted by Long-time listener on June 17, 2022 - 7:15pm "All this mass and real estate just to provide some attenuation/ gain/buffering and to swap among its six inputs? Yes." No. Stereophile: Can we get some more reviews of moderately-priced bookshelf speakers and integrated amps please? Obviously some of your readers are, like Michael Fremer, members of the 1%. Maybe about one percent of them. The rest of us would like some more useful content. Log in or register to post comments Car Mags Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 18, 2022 - 1:10pm Review exotic autos and somehow readers react more pleasantly. Log in or register to post comments Zero to sixty is subjective? Submitted by Anton on June 21, 2022 - 10:15am Acceleration, braking, lap times…. Imagine an auto review that said a car that measures worse than another performs better than a faster car. Just saying it lifted veils on speed would be met with more derision that saying a wildly expensive turntable performed like 25 Karat gold. But, perhaps this is the proper analogy. In cars, beyond performance is taste, so can suspend all this ‘accuracy’ stuff and just run with that! Log in or register to post comments Oh this IS the perfect example Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 1:26pm What test numbers or data could be collected to quantify steering feel or feedback? Ride quality? Seat comfort? The way the kinematics of that specific suspension and tire setup address the feel of expansion joints or potholes or other complex road undulations? The amount of mechanical and/or aero stability at highway speeds and above? Shift and clutch feel for the manuals? Etc etc etc. Actual vehicle reviewers (that include literal race car drivers that ALSO contribute to tests and reviews, such as Randy Pobst, whom I've met personally) often make informed observations about driver confidence as it relates to various vehicle operations like turn in, mid corner bumps, braking feel, steering feel, etc. These data points are vital and core to their reviews. Otherwise, why actually drive any of these vehicles in the first place, if "the data" tells us everything that can be known. You can mock the language that reviewers use to attempt to convey what they hear. That's fine. Log in or register to post comments Preference now precedes performance. Submitted by Anton on June 24, 2022 - 12:01am You summed up modern Hi Fi perfectly, thank you. Knob touch, the new paradigm. Without the knobs! Log in or register to post comments So... Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 19, 2022 - 1:11pm Because I review some expensive gear you think you know what's in my bank account? Seriously? I also reviewed a $700 phono preamp. So? I also reviewed the Rotel Michi amplifiers. Not super costly. You realize you are reading a high performance audio magazine, right? Log in or register to post comments Keep up the great work Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 6:25am Ignore the trolls, Mike. You're doing great work. I love seeing aspirational equipment reviewed! Log in or register to post comments Gryphon Submitted by JohnE on June 22, 2022 - 10:29am Michael, I am sorry for the way in which this discussion has progressed. When I asked if you had listened to a high-end passive preamp, I was genuinely interested in your opinion. As I understand it, the reason you are impressed by the Gryphon is that it is so quiet. I have never heard the Gryphon but I have heard very quiet passive preamps. I would like to know if you think the Gryphon an improvement on a good passive preamp. Log in or register to post comments expensive gear Submitted by geoffrey vanhouwaert on June 18, 2022 - 7:41am Hi everyone, I do feel expensive gear has a place at stereophile and i love reading Jasons reviews but i would also like to see more reviews of affordable gear. Best regards Geoff Log in or register to post comments so many words without Submitted by mcduman on June 18, 2022 - 8:05am so many words without mentioning the departure of Flemming Rasmussen Log in or register to post comments Flemming Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 18, 2022 - 1:11pm Hasn’t departed. He was involved in the industrial design. Log in or register to post comments preamp Submitted by David Harper on June 18, 2022 - 10:16am a $63,000 preamp must provide better sound. I mean it must. Because we all know that sound quality is determined by price.Nevermind that a preamp is a low-level electronic device which has no effect on sound quality. And don't forget; you will need a $63,000 wire to connect it to the amp. Log in or register to post comments The emperor new clothes Submitted by noamgeller on June 18, 2022 - 1:18pm The High End industry not only brought this tale to life, it also exceeded it! We all run naked under the sun. Log in or register to post comments Houston, we have a problem Submitted by teched58 on June 18, 2022 - 2:15pm For many years, Stereophile editors (and indeed many readers) have pushed back on people who've criticized the focus on uber-expensive audio juju. Those critics are slammed as "jealous" -- oh, the sting, someone called me "jealous," how will I ever continue onward? (This is often couple with intimations that said critics are socialists or some such.) Now, we seem to have reached a tipping point: Readers are no longer criticizing. They are now MAKING FUN OF THIS STUFF. P.S. I am NOT criticizing Mikey. He's a great writer and I will miss his stuff, most especially his writings about John Lennon and other classic rockers. To the commenter above, Mikey is not a member of the 1%. Trust me; I'm in an adjacent business. You would not believe how sh***y the pay is for doing this stuff. Log in or register to post comments When I Was a Young Man.... Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 19, 2022 - 1:16pm And had no money and couldn't afford any of the gear I read about in the high end audio magazines, I didn't have cynical thoughts or jealousy. I imagined one day I'd have the means to own some of it. And now I do and you know what? It does sound better. Log in or register to post comments When you were a young man… Submitted by Anton on June 24, 2022 - 10:43am Did the prices of ‘high end’ preamps exceed the average annual income for your fellow Americans? I’d wager not. Log in or register to post comments A heavyweight. Submitted by AnalogueFan on June 18, 2022 - 3:08pm "With its two chassis weighing 151lb, the Gryphon Commander is the heaviest preamplifier I have encountered." —John Atkinson Log in or register to post comments "its two chassis weighing 151lb" qtd JA Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 1:18pm Hi A Line-pramp selling for 63,000 greenbacks got to be something special about it: 151 lbs dead weight. This I call 'Marketing'. Such hefty price & "heavyweight" warrant excellent musical sound? That will be another story. Technically & musically, any line preamps with gain are redundant, IMO. So why nearly every audio guy got one at home ? Thanks to the makers/vendors marketing/sales efforts. This is money making business, not charity. Besides, not many music lovers got skeptical ears like yours truly. My design/built all-triode phonostage+linestage got a direct-by-pass switch to make the linestage PASSIVE. I NEVER switch back to active mode for any high level program sources, like CD/DVD players, DAC, tuner & tape deck. On A/B switching to compare active vs passive, the passive mode music sounds sooo much more OPEN, livelike, see-thru transparent, detailed & PUNCHY playing at the same volume. By "punchy" I mean I can feel the latent energy inside the music fully released without sounding too loud !!!! Active linestages surely give you a lot of loudness on boosting the gain volume control, but the music lacks the "punchy" transient power feeling in it. I recall too well Gordon Holt was very well known in his A/B Bypass TEST in comparing amplifiers. I agree to his idea & have done it PASSIVE for many many years now. Listening with own ears is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments These comments are out of line Submitted by Glotz on June 20, 2022 - 11:58am All of them are insulting and completely ignorant. None of you have heard this preamp and have no idea of what you are talking about. Log in or register to post comments Exactly Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 6:56am A bunch of TV reviewers, reviewing a TV that they have never actually seen. Riveting. Maybe these dolts should listen in good faith at something high end, properly set, up before immediately declaring it sNaKe OiL. There's no other way to say it, but it's inherently disingenuous to comment about a thing with which one has ZERO experience. This is a solidly designed piece of pinnacle gear that also measures well. Log in or register to post comments So have you ever auditioned it ? Submitted by Jack L on June 21, 2022 - 5:51pm . Log in or register to post comments Not relevant Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 7:22pm I have not. But I'm also not a) tendering an opinion on it or b) attempting to sway someone else's informed opinion. Log in or register to post comments We are not making fun of it Submitted by noamgeller on June 18, 2022 - 10:18pm We are making poetry Log in or register to post comments On the Gryphon Commander Submitted by windansea on June 18, 2022 - 11:19pm The chassis is nice It adds no spice Not worth the price Which should be said twice Log in or register to post comments Awsome Submitted by noamgeller on June 18, 2022 - 11:54pm Awsome Log in or register to post comments What a HiFi poem ! Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 9:52am Hi You beat William Shakerspere who knew nothing about HiFi back then. Jack L Log in or register to post comments Auricular check Submitted by teched58 on June 19, 2022 - 12:14pm Is everything OK, Jack? You don't have your usual motto below your signature today, so I was wondering if your ears stopped believing. Or worse, if you have become an objectivist. Log in or register to post comments "Or worse, if you have become an objectivist" qtd teched58 Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 2:18pm Hi Hot lazy summer days can make anyone lazy... (I like yr humour thought). Well, I am sorta kinda a 'hybrid': objective on theory (being in electrical engineering industries for decades) & subjective on aural perception (tube music addict). Objectivists use their objective ways (valid or not) to gauge subjectiveness. I use my technical knowhow (objective) + common sense logics (subjective) to gauge what I listen to. Jack L Log in or register to post comments deleted Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 2:19pm . Log in or register to post comments Shakespeare Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 19, 2022 - 1:13pm Actually read literature before criticizing it. Log in or register to post comments Have You Heard This Preamplifier? Submitted by Michael Fremer on June 19, 2022 - 1:14pm Right. What I thought. Log in or register to post comments "Have you heard this preamplifier?" MF Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 4:21pm Hi No! Though I can afford to buy one with my easy money from the money markets. First off, I would not spend any money on any active line preamps, price irrespective. We can't defy physics. Secondly, why should I audition it knowing too well I will never want to own it. Your situation is unique, you know very well. Like if one does NOT want to spend a 142 million greenbacks to own a Mercedes 300SLR U Coupe, should that person still want a test drive ?? Listening with own ears is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments The answer is Yes. Submitted by Glotz on June 21, 2022 - 10:38am Despite the old auto analogy used, the chance to experience such a rare car is reason enough. There are many driving-enthusiast reasons why this car costs what it does, outside of rarity. You assume things here, much the same way about your feelings on the Gryphon preamp. If this was a new Lamborghini, one could more accurately judge the price to performance ratio. A better example on every level. Such displayed rigidity does not elevate one's experience over time nor does it teach one anything new. To the contrary, it makes one less informed as time passes and technology marches on. I don't question the greatness of classic triode gear, as I've owned the gear in the past and still love everything it brings to the table. I also don't question what great solid-state gear brings, despite my personal convictions held over the years. I open my ears and THEN I believe. If you don't try to listen to everything you can, you'll only believe what you put your ears in front of. Log in or register to post comments "The answer is yes." qtd Glotz Submitted by Jack L on June 21, 2022 - 12:47pm Hi OK, YOUR answer is yes. But MY answer is NO ! Don't you know the $142 million Mercedes is a coupe ? I have never driven a sport car in my life. So YOU think I should still test drive it at my senior age today ? If I were young young like driving fast, where I would get the money to foot the bill ? Day dreaming is harmless until the car dealership guy got pissed off by whatever excuses you decline the deal ! Get real, pal. Jack L Log in or register to post comments Completely unreal response... Submitted by Glotz on June 21, 2022 - 12:51pm Your response would show you don't take chances on anything. The reality you speak of is a rigid, closed-minded world that has a tendency to discount and RAGE, as contributing editors here have noted. Sport cars are fun and so are auditions of equipment you can't afford, no matter the rationalizations you put forth. It opens the ears, the eyes, the body and the mind. Pity. Log in or register to post comments "Your response would show you don't tale chances om anything" Submitted by Jack L on June 21, 2022 - 6:44pm Hi Not intended to offend, are you too old to forget what I posted in Stereophile forums repeatedly, like I auditioned US$125,000 Audio Note Japan "Kegon" 17W+17W all-trioded power amp in its regional office studio which took me 15-hour non-stop flight to go there. NO, I don't "take chances" like you, pal. 'Cause I know what I am doing. I know the very expensive tube power amp would sound good from its design topology. FYI, I design/build audios for decades. So I auditioned it there. Likewise, how many times I mentioned here I make my easy money from the money markets. In fact I just mentioned it in this forum topic a while ago. So am I taking chances day in day out with my money? To you maybe. Not to me as I know what & how to invest. FYI, the return of my half-a-million dollar investment, part of my mutual funds portflios, earned me 12% return end of last year. So I got enough easy money to buy the $63,000 line-amp, right? How come I don't even want to audition it? I said clearly earlier here, & I tell you here again as you don't seem to have read it (giving you the benefit of doubt !): Technically & musically, any linestage with gain is redundant as it defies physics. Enough said. Go bother somebody else who knows audio electronics as much as you do. Thanks but no thanks. Listening with own ears is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments Contradiction? Submitted by Glotz on June 21, 2022 - 9:07pm So, the Audio Note for the same money is somehow a good value price in your application, but the Gryphon preamp is not. Others would appreciate either component. Everyone has a different design approach to their systems- all are valid, when you agree with them or not. Log in or register to post comments "Audio Note.somehow a good value price..but Gryphon is not" Submitted by Jack L on June 22, 2022 - 9:23am Hi Last time I babysit you here on your audio, pal. As georgehifi said it louds & clear: Gryphon is a very expensive switch box !! The US$125,000 Audio Note Japan 'Kegon' is a POWER amp. We do NEED a power amp or an intergrated amp to work any loudspeakers. It could be a 10,000W class D solid state power amp or a 5W+5W all-tube power amp design/built by yours truly or whatever else. The MUST choice is yours. BUT line-amplifiers is another story. Given all high-level programmes available handily, e.g. CD/DVD/tape player/DAC etc etc, with enough high output voltage/low enough impedance to drive any power amps directly. Line-amp's prime function is a swtich box. This is the reason why georgehifi & your truly, among many others, go for passive linestages - for their musical & technical superiority. My homebrew passive linestage is just like a "by-pass straight wire" (quoting Gordon Holt again) - zip harmonic & phase distortion. Yes, "everyone has a different design approach to their systems". "All are valid" or not, it depends. So you are bewitched by the $63,000 switch box?? Be my guest ! Bye! Listening with own ears is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments I understand they are both very expensive Submitted by Glotz on June 22, 2022 - 9:28am and your language is rude and haughty. Mr. Holt never acted that way. Log in or register to post comments PASSIVE. I NEVER switch back to active mode Submitted by georgehifi on June 19, 2022 - 1:36pm Re: Jack L "PASSIVE. I NEVER switch back to active mode for any high level program sources, like CD/DVD players, DAC, tuner & tape deck. On A/B switching to compare active vs passive, the passive mode music sounds sooo much more OPEN, livelike, see-thru transparent, detailed & PUNCHY playing at the same volume. By "punchy" I mean I can feel the latent energy inside the music fully released without sounding too loud !!!!" You got that right Jack. Don't know what these glitz queens hear, they're too busy staring at their $$$$$$$ glitzy preamp purchase to listen. Cheers George Log in or register to post comments "too busy staring at their $$$ glitzy preamp purchase to listen" Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 3:50pm Hi Money talks. Not many rich & affordable got good ears like yours. They can only rely on the price tags - higher SHOULD provide better sound. Too often those expensive audios are acquired as show pieces to enhance the owner's premises - vanity fair !! To those rich & willing, spending $$$$$$$$$ is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments Have You Heard This Preamplifier? Submitted by georgehifi on June 19, 2022 - 1:38pm "Have You Heard This Preamplifier?" Really Michael!!! You shouldn't be able to hear the perfect preamp!!!!!!!! Cheers George Log in or register to post comments We both know that your passive Submitted by Glotz on June 21, 2022 - 10:42am compared to the Gryphon would be laughably colored and veiled and clouded and bandwidth limited, etc. etc etc. Compare the two, then talk your trash. Otherwise, it's just rigidity speaking. Log in or register to post comments "We both know..." qtd Glotz Submitted by Jack L on June 21, 2022 - 12:59pm Hi Who are "We" whom you said have compared a passive linestage vs Gryphon ? Just out of curiosity. Jack L Log in or register to post comments You are not a 'curious' person... Submitted by Glotz on June 21, 2022 - 1:05pm and no comparisons have been made betwixt the two components, nor will they be. Assertions will be made, however incorrectly. Log in or register to post comments "Have You Heard This Preamplifier?" Submitted by Jack L on June 19, 2022 - 2:37pm Hi Be nice to MF. It is his job to review whatever audios assigned to him/interested to him personally. Unlike Gordon Holt, the then owner/publisher of Stereophile magazine, who did not worry offending patrons by doing the reveiw impartially instead of sales pitching. Not many such audio papers could do that. Jack L Log in or register to post comments this kind of hi-end stuff Submitted by ok on June 19, 2022 - 9:12pm is mostly oriented towards asian markets nowadays. Hot money comes back, local jobs flourish, rich people get fooled.. what's not to like? It's a fun read too; nasty comments even more so, as long as *we* are not their primary target. Log in or register to post comments preamp Submitted by David Harper on June 19, 2022 - 5:04pm If I had enough money to buy this preamp I, to, would imagine that it sounds better. Just like Mike. Log in or register to post comments What a whiny bunch of know it all... Submitted by johnnythunder1 on June 19, 2022 - 7:59pm commenters. Unappreciative. Negative. Cynical. Nothing constructive to say. Have something to complain about the equipment, the reviewers. Ignorance about the role of magazines and what they do to stay in business to entertain a bunch of equipment lovers - not music lovers (music is never mentioned by the commenters but measurements and prices are.) Equipment lovers who think they know it all and can't stand the opinions of others. Can't take anything positive away from anything - the writing, the analysis and the reviewing process. Just projecting all their unconscious BS on others. Your collective MO translates as "HOW DARE SOMEONE LIKE SOMETHING I CAN'T AFFORD OR THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM MINE." Your jealousy and pettiness is just so transparent. It just doesn't stop and has become truly malicious and ugly. I hope the new editors ignore the sh-t out of you all and continue to review aspirational esoteric equipment that you will never afford. Read Consumer Reports. Start your own "Bargain Blog." Log in or register to post comments actually Submitted by windansea on June 19, 2022 - 10:07pm I thought it was a well-written and interesting review! And I tend to believe Mr Fremer's opinion that he did in fact hear slightly superior transparency versus his reference dartZeel pre. Of course absent a blind ABX the reader is left unable to have the utmost confidence. And echoing George's point, a quality passive pre (autoformers or LDR) should be more transparent than any active, so that would have been an interesting comparison. That said, at this exceptional price point (far higher the top of the line for Audio Research or Conrad Johnson or Shindo), I look not so much for mere transparency as for some extra vitality, what some tube preamps can do. (call it musicality or tone boosting or whatever) Think Shindo or certain niche preamps with NOS tubes that add something delightful. Not exactly hi-fidelity, but I don't mind euphonic distortion. Aural catnip. That additional musical enjoyment is absent from Mr Fremer's review of the Gryphon Commander. Log in or register to post comments johnnythunder1 Submitted by noamgeller on June 20, 2022 - 3:31am I will do my best to write logicly. No sarcasm or offense intended. The ever rising prices for Audio products is somewhat staggering. Few Luxus audio Brands are pushing retail prices threw the roof, knowing that they have to play the game for to stay in the game. Bigger, more expensive more exclusive is better right? I cannot blame them, it´s a tough world... Mucnich Highend is a perfect example of it. The more exclusive you are the more attention you get. So, is it the Consumer to blame? or the provider? maybe the guy (press) who is running in between to deliver us with information? Thank you Michael for all that you do! Many many of us can see clearly through this ever expending bubble. Can you blame us for wanting to pop it? You see, most of the Audiophile folks I personally know are high up on the food chain. Engineers, Elektro-engineers, Product Designers and so on... smart people in short. So we called the king naked We threw some tommatoes on him and now we wright Poems... Every person and his own way to deal with inflation. Log in or register to post comments Not jealousy, UTILITY Submitted by teched58 on June 20, 2022 - 8:46am Oooh, johnnythunder (the first unhinged comment above, not the second, more reasonable one) called us jealous. Ooooh, how will I ever go on with such an onerous insult hanging over my head? Am I a communist, too? BTW, I do have to give you credit for even posting this comment, because I thought you OD'd 30 years ago. (Others say it was leukemia and some even speculate you met with foul play. Presumably because of comments like this.) Anyway, I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY WE ARE FED UP WITH $$$$ REVIEWS. It's NOT because we are jealous. It's because these reviews HAVE NO UTILITY for us. We will not be buying $63,000 switch boxes. Reviews like this take up staff mindshare that could be used to help guide us to stuff we will actually buy. Why do you think people are going to the objectivist forum that shall not be named? It's not even because we are objectivists. (Indeed, nearly all SP readers have some subjectivist component.) It's because we want to read about affordable gear like that from Topping and Schiit. (Yes, I know they've reviewed a few Toppings and some affordable Elacs and Klipschs. But these are relatively few and far between; paradoxically they're like finding a nugget of gold amid the Hot Rock-priced audio blingware.) Now excuse we while I go call Fidel and my other commie compadres to tell them that you've found me out and told the world about my jeeeeealllousy. Log in or register to post comments "Equipment lovers think they know all & can't stand the opinions Submitted by Jack L on June 20, 2022 - 10:10am ......of others" qtd johnnythunder 1. Hi First all, here is an open venue open to yeasayers & naysayers. Your above comment only shows that "Your jealousy & pettiness is just so transparent" as being a yeasayer who can't stand naysayers upfront & frank opinion. I do not see any naysayers in this forum topic ever quoted they "know it all". Only you accused them being so, apparently due to your own inferior complex or the like. Even though I know how to design/build a linestage with "straight-line bypass" feature (quoting Gordon Holt) with zip harmonic/phase distortion etc etc, I never ever quote myself being "know-all". So please do not put your words in those naysayers' mouths, Mr. Thunder ! Much appreciated. Listening with own ears is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments Perfectly stated. Submitted by Glotz on June 20, 2022 - 12:02pm NT Log in or register to post comments Audacious Audio? John Atkinson's measurements point to... Submitted by thefritz on June 20, 2022 - 8:00am Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this. So Gryphon is rather expensive and not Audacious Audio, with the Topping preamp clocking in at ~1% of the Gryphon's price tag. Log in or register to post comments I can’t afford it, but I don’t whine about it. Submitted by hiendmmoe on June 20, 2022 - 9:08am It’s funny how every time I read these comment sections regarding ultra Hiend components being reviewed the whiners come out and hijack the comment sections. Get a life, find some happiness because we don’t give a …. what you think! Log in or register to post comments whiners Submitted by David Harper on June 20, 2022 - 10:58am It's the other way around. It's you high-enders who need to get a life. Nobody with any brains thinks a 63K preamp makes any sense. Read that sentence over and over and over again. Do you get it now? Log in or register to post comments Interesting Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 6:37am So, you're cross shopping both the Gryphon and another (cheaper-but-equal) preamp and arrived at this conclusion? What about a McLaren with $13k in painted-in racing stripes and $20k in carbon fiber options "makes sense"? But car mags fly off the shelves and they don't have people like you getting angry with "why don't you review the new Dacia Sendero!" If you're cross shopping this Gryphon with another vastly cheaper preamp and arrived at the informed conclusion that it's not worth it, that's totally fine. If you're just guessing about how it performs and cannot afford the Gryphon, you're adding to the SNR in a negative way. It's that simple. Imagine showing up to a wine tasting behaving like this.... Log in or register to post comments Harper Submitted by hiendmmoe on June 20, 2022 - 11:26am I spend more listening than talking; “I think that’s what sets you and I apart”! Log in or register to post comments Stereophile Submitted by hiendmmoe on June 20, 2022 - 11:39am Just want to say I enjoy reading about your reviews on ultra Hiend equipment. Even though I can’t afford to buy it ( at least not retail ) I still feel it’s worth my time to educate myself on what the leading edge has to offer. Please post more reviews regarding cost no object components. Maybe you could start separate magazines. One dedicated to low to mid hifi and the other to hiend to ultra hiend? Log in or register to post comments Retail Submitted by otaku on June 21, 2022 - 6:05am Yes, please continue to review the Good Stuff. I have an older high-end SACD player that bought used. I never could have afforded it new, but I love it. Log in or register to post comments Keep the High End!! Submitted by The Tinkerer on June 21, 2022 - 6:54am Agreed!!!! I love reading about true benchmark, High End equipment! Sound and Vision used to be under the same umbrella if they aren't still. They review PLENTY of inexpensive stuff. It feels like half the commenters here are subscribed to the wrong periodical. Log in or register to post comments Clipping @ 2V? Submitted by MZKM on June 20, 2022 - 11:57am What engineer for this company thought that for a $63k preamp that clipping at 2V balanced would be ok? Sure, at 4V it is still respectable performance, but it’s just head scratching. Some amps even need more than 4V to achieve max wattage, as they use low gain input buffers (or none at all) in order to maximize performance. Log in or register to post comments Magic wand waved over the Gryphon Submitted by georgehifi on June 21, 2022 - 11:56pm "Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this." Yes but the yeasayers will tell you there's some sort of voodoo/magic been done inside the Gryphon that can't be measure or seen. Cheers George Log in or register to post comments I hope you realize... Submitted by JHL on June 22, 2022 - 12:50am ...but I strongly suspect you do not, that not one person in this unfortunate thread of comments has so much as hinted at that, George, meaning that your insulting drive-by remark, like a number of similar comments from the usual suspects, have inverted the argument. In order to smear people you don't know on the subject of a product you have no experience with following the work of the experienced, qualified reviewer you just slandered, you, like so many fellow so-called objectivists resorted to that same transparently-false canard. The objectivist canard begins with the unfounded, unbacked, and flatly ignorant conclusion that a suite of measurements of just X, Y, and Z perfectly and completely speak for the real sound of a device. You leave that assumption unchallenged and so that you can gate-keep and take scalps and generally behave poorly in public while you demonstrate that ignorance and gross incivility. It is the objectivist's purported argument, and not the reviewer and not the civil commenter's argument, that relies on magic and voodoo, whatever you mean by that, in a priori erecting the notion that you know how a device sounds. It's your assertion that lacks a proper foundation. And it's your assumption that you know what clearly you do not that manifests as the problem, not the listeners and not the thoughtful reader who simply understands that yes, we don't know what it sounds or smells or tastes or looks like until we personally take it in. In fact, it's this argument you make - addressing the broader topic now - that becomes a logical conundrum, a non sequitur, and a facade, when it tacitly expects to demand the proof of a negative; the existence of a phenomenon - that of sound, which is why we do audio after all - when you, as the corollary of your obvious error that we can measure sound, demand of others that they endure all the many objectivist abuses and for them, produce evidence of a phenomenon that by your own tacit admission, does not exist. That is a profoundly unscientific and un-objective position to take, but it is the root of the objectivist cant and dogma. It is the core of the deeply ignorant assumption, an assumption that ends in wild and wildly uncivil assertions like yours and these, that others can't experience, mayn't try, are frauds, and here in the anonymous comments section of a free online publication, must perform for you. Your kind expect the world to perform for you to fulfill your biases, and when they naturally don't, you abuse them while in effect you demean the pursuit of recreating the sound of music for the elevated purpose and state of mind that pursuit brings. That's a terrible argument and it's a terrible thing that unexamined behavior does to the audio high end. It's comments threads like this that have me biting my tongue until I can't stay quiet any longer. It's displays like these that have any rational, civil reader hoping the editors just close the comments entirely. And displays of this hostile ignorance and rush to abuse that has me fearing for the pastime. The statement that "the Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this" [sic] is in fact a direct and bald-faced admission of that ignorance. It is untrue but it and others like it is motivated by an active pursuit of that ignorance aimed at just this problem we have in these exchanges. I didn't want to point that out before but I will now, way down in the basement of this stupid thread. This preamplifier is, as the Editor himself documented and reported, one of the finest he's measured in his very long and quite capable career with this journal. The notion that it's bested, in any conceivable, meaningful way, by a cheap speedline import aimed solely at cheap numbers marketed toward easily-led consumers of such peripheral things, transparently preposterous. Fine audio is worth protecting. Man up, grow up, and do better. Self-satisfied objectivists haven't found the slightest fraction of the magic elixir of technical truth you give all indications you think you have, one hundreds of years of journalistic excellence somehow missed in their promotion of "voodoo and magic". All you've outed is the obvious fantastic weakness of that miserable, ignorant, and uncivil assertion. Go buy something else, listen to something else, read and critique something your own speed, and at least act like a reasonable consumer you seem to want to be seen to be. It's not working among your betters. Log in or register to post comments objectivists Submitted by David Harper on June 22, 2022 - 12:22pm The above post may be the most misinformed and illogical thing I have ever read in my life. It would take far more time and effort than I wish to devote to this thread to point out the numerous delusions, misconceptions and fallacies in this post. Log in or register to post comments That post... Submitted by JHL on June 24, 2022 - 4:56am ...is informed by decades of multidisciplinary research and hands-on experience. It has such an impeccable logic to it that apparently you'd find it uncomfortable to engage it on merits. Any of it. But I'm happy to also bank the amusing slander of 'delusion' as your reputation's best shot. Log in or register to post comments "That post" qtd JHL Submitted by Jack L on June 24, 2022 - 7:14pm Hi Which was "that post" you are talking about ? I got the impression you are barking up the wrong tree until now, pal. Georgehifi & yours truly were talking about the technical & sonic issue of a linestage with gain & without gain (passive) vs prices. This is the manufacturer-vendors issue. Not finger-pointing at whoever did the review of whatever audios here. It is the job of the reviewer to do the review of component, good or bad irrespective. So why keep on bitching us for insulting your great heroic "the best audio reporters in the business' with "one hundreds (?) of years of journalistic excellence" ???????? My decades of analogue music enjoyment (1,000+ LPs) & my decades of audio amps design/built hands-on experience (including truly "straight-line bypass" passive linestages) back up what I have stated here in this forum topic. Enough said. Listening to music with own ears, not sales pitches, is believing. Jack L PS: Your heroic audio reporter is reportedly leaving for the other strong compeition audio journal. Why don't you join him there??? Log in or register to post comments "Fine audio is worth protecting" qtd JHL Submitted by Jack L on June 22, 2022 - 3:13pm Hi. Yes, just like priceless historic paintings framed up in the museums. Yet fine consumers are "worth protecting" too, right ? $63,000 is a lot of money for ordinary audio Joe Blows. Indeed such money can buy bread & better to feed many many starving people in poor countries. So you have problem with "worth protecting" fine consumers by accusing them biasing! So what, this is $63,000 bias against profiteering makers/vendors. What is musicality of this $63,000 switch box with gain to do with its finest measurement ever documented & reported by the Editor ? So you ASSUME best measurement would warrant best sounding ?? Sorry I don't from my aural experience. Yea, George biased against & YOU bias fowards the same expensive merchandise. "Fine audio" or fine consumers should "worth protecting more ?? Listening is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments I don't have... Submitted by JHL on June 24, 2022 - 4:48am ...a bias favoring expensive components for the sake of price, Jack. Never have. See the comment you replied to; I favor fine audio. Since I've always made it clear that sound is the goal, fine audio is defined by its tremendous sound. From there I naturally favor fine audio's legitimate reporters, while I dismiss the irrationality and gross technical shortcomings of low-level attacks, especially those that guilt by price or abuse true knowledge. Not much exemplifies that last category better than tossed-off comments in free threads hosted by the best audio reporters in the business. And the worst of *those* comments rob a stranger of their intent, project another motivation against them, and declare victory. Log in or register to post comments Deleted Submitted by Jack L on June 22, 2022 - 5:52pm . Log in or register to post comments Absolutely pure truth from JHL... Submitted by Glotz on June 23, 2022 - 9:42am For exposing the illogical ignorance and fallacies purported by the usual suspects who never stick to a single argument nor admit when their argument has no validity or strays so vastly from their assertions. It is disingenuous to use expensive component examples for to justify their own arguments and then decrying another example of expensive equipment simply because it doesn't fit their own dogmatic biases. Worse yet they pretend they are trying to protect other consumers from buying expensive equipment. This is despite the fact anyone purchasing this type of gear would already have amassed much knowledge of this hobby and the product before purchasing. Log in or register to post comments " objectivists" Submitted by georgehifi on June 22, 2022 - 2:40pm http://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-12/256/thu... To the above David Harper post And to the post above that one. Submitted by JHL "The statement that "the Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this" [sic]" And it wasn't even me that posted this, that's how much is absorbed by this reader. Cheers George Log in or register to post comments Greener and quieter pastures Submitted by Auditor on June 22, 2022 - 1:19pm Michael Fremer is moving to The Absolute Sound. Lucky guy! He won't have to put up anymore with the craziness and rudeness that goes on under the comments section of Stereophile. Log in or register to post comments Michael Fremer is moving to The Absolute Sound. Lucky guy! Submitted by georgehifi on June 22, 2022 - 3:57pm He'll suit it, no measurements done over there, just poetic licence reviewing. Readers that can analyse JA's measurements, can usually draw compassion lines to what some better listening reviews say. Cheers George Log in or register to post comments McIntosh Submitted by noamgeller on June 22, 2022 - 9:11pm https://www.tonepublications.com/industry-news/a-box-of-nothing-from-mcintosh/ Need I say more? The joke is on us consumers Log in or register to post comments Wow... Submitted by Auditor on June 23, 2022 - 7:25am Well, that just destroyed my opinion of McIntosh. However, let's not tar the whole industry with the same brush. A lot of companies are run by folks who are first and foremost passionate about music and who aren't in it to squeeze as much money out of consumers as they possibly can. It's up to us, the consumers, to do our homework and exercise our judgement. Log in or register to post comments "us, the consumers, to do our homework & exercise our judgement" Submitted by Jack L on June 23, 2022 - 11:41am BINGO !!! Judge its sound & function instead of price !!!! Jack L Log in or register to post comments It's $200 bucks. Submitted by Glotz on June 23, 2022 - 9:49am You wouldn't buy it, clearly. For someone that has spent thousands on a full Mac rig, $200 is nothing. An LED system with Mac branding and the level of Mac casework required is certainly reasonable- for a McIntosh customer. Log in or register to post comments $1500 and sold out Submitted by Briandrumzilla on June 23, 2022 - 10:02am According to Mcintosh website. Eagerly waiting for the review and measurements. Log in or register to post comments Says a lot of about pride of ownership... Submitted by Glotz on June 23, 2022 - 11:01am for McIntosh products! If it didn't fit the customer base, it wouldn't sell. Log in or register to post comments Read the article... Submitted by Auditor on June 23, 2022 - 11:20am Glotz, you obviously haven't read the Tone post. According to the article, the box costs $1500, not $200. Of course, at $200 it could make sense, I guess; esthetically speaking, that is. They also talk about McIntosh wooden boards that are being sold at an unconscionable price. It's actually the boards that bother me more than the light box. In any case, whatever one thinks of this, it's good policy to read the article before commenting. Log in or register to post comments LOL... Submitted by Glotz on June 23, 2022 - 12:00pm Yeah my bad. I skimmed the article. I re-read it after the last poster corrected me. Oh look, a poster that admits a mistake! $1500 is terrible!! Grrrrrr. Lol.. not really. Lastly, Jeff D sounds like an absolute ranting child the way he went off on the product. Pure embarrassment for a professional writer. If you have pride of ownership and $40,000 in Mac gear, $1500 isn't going to break the bank to have additional Mac pride. You shouldn't let it bother you... It's not even available anymore! There are tons of watches, pens, shoes, stereos, cars and a million other expensive products out there that we can't afford. For Boomers with expendable income, this is their hobby and enjoyment. Can't put a price on happiness, bro. And the sell out of this product proves it. Log in or register to post comments The rants of the uninformed and inexperienced... Submitted by GregWeaver on June 26, 2022 - 10:53am Michael.... IGNORE ALL THIS STATIC. As you well know, this is just so many sphincters whining, with ZERO knowledge or understanding. Almost ALL of these Nay Sayers are just spewing nonsense... I will reiterate two points I’ve made in print for decades now, and that I suspect we both agree upon. One - Until you've ACTUALLY heard something, you have no possible way to know or understand what it sounds like, and therefore, you can have NO OPINION on its sound! Two - Price alone is NOT a clear indicator of performance. I’ve heard some HORRENDOUS sounding very expensive products. But, by that same token, the finest performance available today is not cheap. Log in or register to post comments "ZERO knowledge & understanding" qtdGregWeaver Submitted by Jack L on June 27, 2022 - 2:49pm Hi Cool it! Why you've gone so peronal as if Mike were your kissing cousin This is a public forum open to comments, positive or negative. FYI, this is the job of the reviewers to review & report subject to response of their readers. The review-response system works this way since day one. Nothing personal about who reviewed what !! Now you claim the naysayers here got "ZERO knowledge & understanding blah blah blah.. How do YOU know ???? Substantiate yr such accussation, please. FYI in case you missed it: As one of the naysayers for this linestage topic, I design/built truly straight-line-bypass passive linestages many years back for pure music lovers. I am using one myself. My question to YOU: do you know anything about design/building a line-preamp ?? If you don't, you got SUB-ZERO knowledgw & understanding about it. Better keep it to yourself instead telling the whole world how sooo "smart" you are !!! Listening music is believing Jack L Log in or register to post comments The first rule of debate: Stay on topic... Submitted by GregWeaver on June 27, 2022 - 4:04pm Jack L. Yet again you show how easily you are confused and lose focus. My comments had absolutely nothing to do with the design, or the sound, of anything, including the Gryphon Commander or any line stage, for that matter. Rather, my comments were aimed at those who railed at the prospect that such an expensive price was somehow either unjustified, or couldn’t possible offer better performance than a less costly product WITHOUT having as much as heard it. I notice that you TOTALLY IGNORED both of my tenets – first, that if you haven’t heard something, you cannot have a valid opinion of how it sounds. Second, while price alone is not a direct indicator of performance, the best performance available today is not cheap! Clearly you were so incensed by thinking you were part of the Nay Sayers I was mentioning that you chose to leap before you looked. As to “substantiating” my position, if you don’t recognize my name, you clearly haven’t been in or around this industry very long. Michael is an old and respected colleague. You might want to do some research before you ask such silly questions. I’ve been involved in this industry for over fifty years, and have been consulting (as a designer), writing about, reviewing, covering shows and events, contributing to authoritative books, and interviewing industry leaders for over thirty-five years. I’ve written for and edited a number of publications including the audio analyst©, Positive Feedback (in print and online), SoundStage!, The Stereo Times, Enjoy the Music, TONEAudio, and The Absolute Sound – where Michael started his audio writing career in the Sept/Oct 1986 issue, Vol. 11/Issue 42. Log in or register to post comments "such silly questions." qtd Gregweaver Submitted by Jack L on June 27, 2022 - 8:19pm Hi Sorry, your very substantial resume does not save your day, pal. Instead it only shows us the background of your sheer arrogance in accusing the naysayers in this forum topic as "ZERO knowledge & understanding". I never yet commented your 2 tenets as I put my "focus" first at your insulting our fellow readers. Showing your ego of being "50 years in "this industry", right ? With yr claim of decades experience in reviewing, how come you still have not learned the principle of reviewing & reporting - impartial & impersonal. Mike obviously understands his role of being an impartial & impersonal reviewer as so far in this topic, he has not shown any burst of temper like you clearly showed us all !!! Soung like you got up out the wrong side of the bed, you need a coffee to cool it down ! Jack L PS: I am going to get on your two tenets later, particulary the 2nd one. Don't worry ! Log in or register to post comments Again, no comprehension of what you read... Submitted by GregWeaver on June 27, 2022 - 8:39pm "Instead it only shows us the background of your sheer arrogance in accusing the naysayers in this forum topic as "ZERO knowledge & understanding". You just don't get it... Like all posers, you are focused on the wrong things... Instead of trying to ignore my points, the reality is that all the Nay Sayers HAVE NEVER HEARD THE PRODUCT UNDER CONDISERATION. Thier opinion, which is both uninformed and ignorant, is the issue here. Yet you have no comprehension of the reality of the situation... You, and your hyper flawed misunderstanding of, and arguments ignoring, the issues under discussion (no REALLY!) show your inability to understand the art and essence of debate. And in fact, you've really dropped your pants to show your unsupportable position. It is just such misunderstanding and arrogance that has conspired to keep me from even trying to reason with the trolls and agitators out there - posers just like you! Please feel free to waste someone else's time with your evasion and unsupportable stances... No, REALLY. You're not even aware of how clueless you are... Enjoy your time huffing and puffing...I'm sure you enjoy that. ;-) Log in or register to post comments Has has never stayed on topic... ever. Submitted by Glotz on June 28, 2022 - 6:50am I could not agree more. This is a forum for certain people to pretend they are the only ones that matter to audio reproduction. Moreover, they do it in a cowardly fashion by adding insults and assumptions about everyone and everything, while never questioning their own flimsy positions. 'Cooling it' really applies to him only. Thanks Greg, been reading your work with TAS for years. Log in or register to post comments "Naysayers never heard the product under consideration" Gregweav Submitted by Jack L on June 28, 2022 - 12:15pm Hi How are you so sure ALL naysayers NEVER heard the $63,000 switch box? Have you done such a survey or just blined guessing ? My question to YOU: have you ever audition it ?????? If YES, you should have put forth your aural impression of this expensive switch box to compare with Mike F's review instead of whining !!!! Do something positve to us readers here rather venting your spreen here ! If NO, "you have really dropped your pants to show" us all yr shady hypocrisy. Shame !!! One might be knowledgeable like the Almighty, but still one has no right to condemn whoever else "ZERO knowledge & understanding". This is PEROSNAL attack, IMO, being unCIVIL & should be deleted from this civil venue. Jack L Log in or register to post comments Another sane voice Submitted by GregWeaver on June 28, 2022 - 7:12am Hello Glotz, and thanks for your clear expression of what is going on here with this insecure and uniformed poser... I had meant to respond to, and applaud, your earlier post... "These comments are out of line Submitted by Glotz on June 20, 2022 - 11:58am All of them are insulting and completely ignorant. None of you have heard this preamp and have no idea of what you are talking about." And honestly, I thought your above post was the first to get the whole point here. Dislike, deny, and doubt any product all you want. But if you haven't heard it, you have no ability, or right, to express an opinion on how that unheard product sounds. While I've no issues with statements such as, "Well, given my experience I don't believe it could...," or "I just don't see how it might be...," beyond that, until you've heard it, just keep yer trap shut. Thanks for your support over the years, stay grounded, and safe! ;-) Log in or register to post comments Hallo GregWeaver Submitted by noamgeller on June 28, 2022 - 11:28am Hallo GregWeaver I appreciate your stand and your opinion. But, I will position myself carefully at the naysayers group. I do know that certain products are trying to push the limits of what is possible and so on and I will repeat what I formally wrote: The ever rising prices for Audio products is somewhat staggering. Few Luxus audio Brands are pushing retail prices threw the roof, knowing that they have to play the game for to stay in the game. Bigger, more expensive more exclusive is better right? I cannot blame them, it´s a tough world... Munich Highend is a perfect example of it. The more exclusive you are the more attention you get. So, is it the Consumer to blame? or the provider? maybe the guy (press) who is running in between to deliver us with information? Many many of us can see clearly through this ever expending bubble. Can you blame us for wanting to pop it? I know it’s your place to deliver the news and the goods… yet. Haven’t we gone a step too far. Especially in these times of war, is there really a place for such luxury when some of do not have a home to return to? Cars, and other luxury products are sharing the same fate or so it seems. I do write with a tear in one eye… yet I do not consider myself a whiner. Log in or register to post comments "Many of us can see clearly through this ever expending bubble" Submitted by Jack L on June 28, 2022 - 11:49am Hi BINGO ! Well said calm & cool ! Yet many here don't have a clue. They just WHINE about whoever don't pay same flattery compliment to their favourite reviewers by accusing them having "ZERO knowledge & understanding". SHAME !!!! Jack L Log in or register to post comments "maybe the guy (press) running in between to deliver us w/info?" Submitted by Jack L on June 28, 2022 - 12:55pm Hi I wish Gordon Holt is still around here ! Jack L Log in or register to post comments Such a waste of time... Submitted by GregWeaver on June 28, 2022 - 12:22pm This will be my last post on this ridiculous thread. Jack L. - you clearly cannot, or choose not to, comprehend what you read. Log in or register to post comments "Such a waste of time" qtd Gregwesver Submitted by Jack L on June 28, 2022 - 12:42pm Hi Indeed! Your personal attack to us readers here have made this forum topic "ridiculous" ! Quiting won't save your pants here, pal. Before you quit, I hereby request you again to answer my very up-to-the-topic question which you try to ignore:- You have ever auditioned this $63,000 line-amp ?? I am all ears! Jack L Log in or register to post comments I had genuin intrest in your Submitted by noamgeller on June 29, 2022 - 12:35am I had genuin intrest in your response. I was not planning with "waste of time" and "ridiculouse". A shame really. Log in or register to post comments "This will be my last post on this ridiculous thread." Submitted by georgehifi on June 28, 2022 - 2:18pm https://tinyurl.com/yc5a7dnn Cheers George Log in or register to post comments Preamplifier Submitted by Dr.Karl.L on July 9, 2022 - 8:01am I am reading this article right now while listening through my Threshold PCR1 modular preamplifier and Threshold SA12e monoblocks to the the same Grant Green's Idle Moments Album mentioned in this review. I couldn’t enjoy the music and this moment more. Just to mention I am only 36 years old and wondering why some comments (from persons with years of designing and building experience) are so childish or rude. Thanks Michael for your review. Best regards from Germany, Karl Log in or register to post comments brettmendes@gmail.com Submitted by brettmendes on July 22, 2022 - 3:40pm Man, I would love to hear the Apex/Commander combination drive a pair of Magico M9's... Log in or register to post comments

A comment and a question.

A gryphon is not the same as a dragon. A dragon (as in St George and the dragon on Game of Thrones) has wings. A gryphon has two legs but no wings.

Have you listened to a high-end passive preamplifier (Townshend Allegri Reference or Music First Reference V2) to compare them with the Gryphon sound quality? I would be interested in your comments.

Hmm, having checked Wikipedia I see that the gryphon is wingless only in British heraldary. The difference between a gryphon and a dragon is that the gryphon does not breathe fire.

I suppose that is a desirable attribute in a preamplifier.

To quote Bob Cohen, former salesperson at The Cable Company, "You're not a true member of the Hi-End until you've had something blow up on you."

From personal experience: Anyone desiring such an initiation might consider beta testing. It was my ticket to the dragon's breath.

I've roasted a few voicecoils before. But have not (yet) let the magic smoke out of an amp or preamp.

If the source has low output impedance (which most are) and enough voltage to clip the power amp. All that's needed if the source hasn't it's own volume control to go direct to amp with and to surpass this usd $63k!!! preamp's sound. Is to just use a quality passive pre, which, should be also be more dynamic, more transparent, more extended highs & lows, and have less distortion to boot, just like going direct should be if it has volume control.

More electronics in the signal path, worse will be the music coming out of it at the expense of paying more. In this case, hopefully it won't be a $63,000 distortion generator that bad.

Listening with own ears is beleiving

I hope Mr. Fremer's gear is not affected. Schneider knows who got the products and will be contacting them.

Schneider ElectricTM Recalls 1.4 Million Electrical Panels Due to Thermal Burn and Fire Hazards

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/2022/Schneider-ElectricTM-Recalls-1-4-Million-Electrical-Panels-Due-to-Thermal-Burn-and-Fire-Hazards

"All this mass and real estate just to provide some attenuation/ gain/buffering and to swap among its six inputs? Yes."

Stereophile: Can we get some more reviews of moderately-priced bookshelf speakers and integrated amps please? Obviously some of your readers are, like Michael Fremer, members of the 1%. Maybe about one percent of them. The rest of us would like some more useful content.

Review exotic autos and somehow readers react more pleasantly.

Imagine an auto review that said a car that measures worse than another performs better than a faster car.

Just saying it lifted veils on speed would be met with more derision that saying a wildly expensive turntable performed like 25 Karat gold.

But, perhaps this is the proper analogy. In cars, beyond performance is taste, so can suspend all this ‘accuracy’ stuff and just run with that!

What test numbers or data could be collected to quantify steering feel or feedback? Ride quality? Seat comfort? The way the kinematics of that specific suspension and tire setup address the feel of expansion joints or potholes or other complex road undulations? The amount of mechanical and/or aero stability at highway speeds and above? Shift and clutch feel for the manuals? Etc etc etc.

Actual vehicle reviewers (that include literal race car drivers that ALSO contribute to tests and reviews, such as Randy Pobst, whom I've met personally) often make informed observations about driver confidence as it relates to various vehicle operations like turn in, mid corner bumps, braking feel, steering feel, etc. These data points are vital and core to their reviews. Otherwise, why actually drive any of these vehicles in the first place, if "the data" tells us everything that can be known.

You can mock the language that reviewers use to attempt to convey what they hear. That's fine.

You summed up modern Hi Fi perfectly, thank you.

Knob touch, the new paradigm. Without the knobs!

Because I review some expensive gear you think you know what's in my bank account? Seriously? I also reviewed a $700 phono preamp. So? I also reviewed the Rotel Michi amplifiers. Not super costly. You realize you are reading a high performance audio magazine, right?

Ignore the trolls, Mike. You're doing great work. I love seeing aspirational equipment reviewed!

Michael, I am sorry for the way in which this discussion has progressed. When I asked if you had listened to a high-end passive preamp, I was genuinely interested in your opinion. As I understand it, the reason you are impressed by the Gryphon is that it is so quiet. I have never heard the Gryphon but I have heard very quiet passive preamps. I would like to know if you think the Gryphon an improvement on a good passive preamp.

I do feel expensive gear has a place at stereophile and i love reading Jasons reviews but i would also like to see more reviews of affordable gear.

so many words without mentioning the departure of Flemming Rasmussen

Hasn’t departed. He was involved in the industrial design.

a $63,000 preamp must provide better sound. I mean it must. Because we all know that sound quality is determined by price.Nevermind that a preamp is a low-level electronic device which has no effect on sound quality. And don't forget; you will need a $63,000 wire to connect it to the amp.

The High End industry not only brought this tale to life, it also exceeded it! We all run naked under the sun.

For many years, Stereophile editors (and indeed many readers) have pushed back on people who've criticized the focus on uber-expensive audio juju. Those critics are slammed as "jealous" -- oh, the sting, someone called me "jealous," how will I ever continue onward? (This is often couple with intimations that said critics are socialists or some such.)

Now, we seem to have reached a tipping point: Readers are no longer criticizing. They are now MAKING FUN OF THIS STUFF.

P.S. I am NOT criticizing Mikey. He's a great writer and I will miss his stuff, most especially his writings about John Lennon and other classic rockers. To the commenter above, Mikey is not a member of the 1%. Trust me; I'm in an adjacent business. You would not believe how sh***y the pay is for doing this stuff.

And had no money and couldn't afford any of the gear I read about in the high end audio magazines, I didn't have cynical thoughts or jealousy. I imagined one day I'd have the means to own some of it. And now I do and you know what? It does sound better.

Did the prices of ‘high end’ preamps exceed the average annual income for your fellow Americans?

"With its two chassis weighing 151lb, the Gryphon Commander is the heaviest preamplifier I have encountered." —John Atkinson

A Line-pramp selling for 63,000 greenbacks got to be something special about it: 151 lbs dead weight. This I call 'Marketing'. Such hefty price & "heavyweight" warrant excellent musical sound? That will be another story.

Technically & musically, any line preamps with gain are redundant, IMO. So why nearly every audio guy got one at home ? Thanks to the makers/vendors marketing/sales efforts. This is money making business, not charity. Besides, not many music lovers got skeptical ears like yours truly.

My design/built all-triode phonostage+linestage got a direct-by-pass switch to make the linestage PASSIVE. I NEVER switch back to active mode for any high level program sources, like CD/DVD players, DAC, tuner & tape deck. On A/B switching to compare active vs passive, the passive mode music sounds sooo much more OPEN, livelike, see-thru transparent, detailed & PUNCHY playing at the same volume.

By "punchy" I mean I can feel the latent energy inside the music fully released without sounding too loud !!!!

Active linestages surely give you a lot of loudness on boosting the gain volume control, but the music lacks the "punchy" transient power feeling in it.

I recall too well Gordon Holt was very well known in his A/B Bypass TEST in comparing amplifiers. I agree to his idea & have done it PASSIVE for many many years now.

Listening with own ears is believing

All of them are insulting and completely ignorant.

None of you have heard this preamp and have no idea of what you are talking about.

A bunch of TV reviewers, reviewing a TV that they have never actually seen. Riveting.

Maybe these dolts should listen in good faith at something high end, properly set, up before immediately declaring it sNaKe OiL. There's no other way to say it, but it's inherently disingenuous to comment about a thing with which one has ZERO experience.

This is a solidly designed piece of pinnacle gear that also measures well.

I have not. But I'm also not a) tendering an opinion on it or b) attempting to sway someone else's informed opinion.

The chassis is nice It adds no spice Not worth the price Which should be said twice

You beat William Shakerspere who knew nothing about HiFi back then.

You don't have your usual motto below your signature today, so I was wondering if your ears stopped believing. Or worse, if you have become an objectivist.

Hot lazy summer days can make anyone lazy... (I like yr humour thought).

Well, I am sorta kinda a 'hybrid': objective on theory (being in electrical engineering industries for decades) & subjective on aural perception (tube music addict).

Objectivists use their objective ways (valid or not) to gauge subjectiveness. I use my technical knowhow (objective) + common sense logics (subjective) to gauge what I listen to.

Actually read literature before criticizing it.

No! Though I can afford to buy one with my easy money from the money markets.

First off, I would not spend any money on any active line preamps, price irrespective. We can't defy physics.

Secondly, why should I audition it knowing too well I will never want to own it. Your situation is unique, you know very well.

Like if one does NOT want to spend a 142 million greenbacks to own a Mercedes 300SLR U Coupe, should that person still want a test drive ??

Listening with own ears is believing

Despite the old auto analogy used, the chance to experience such a rare car is reason enough. There are many driving-enthusiast reasons why this car costs what it does, outside of rarity. You assume things here, much the same way about your feelings on the Gryphon preamp.

If this was a new Lamborghini, one could more accurately judge the price to performance ratio. A better example on every level.

Such displayed rigidity does not elevate one's experience over time nor does it teach one anything new. To the contrary, it makes one less informed as time passes and technology marches on.

I don't question the greatness of classic triode gear, as I've owned the gear in the past and still love everything it brings to the table. I also don't question what great solid-state gear brings, despite my personal convictions held over the years. I open my ears and THEN I believe.

If you don't try to listen to everything you can, you'll only believe what you put your ears in front of.

OK, YOUR answer is yes.

But MY answer is NO !

Don't you know the $142 million Mercedes is a coupe ?

I have never driven a sport car in my life. So YOU think I should still test drive it at my senior age today ?

If I were young young like driving fast, where I would get the money to foot the bill ?

Day dreaming is harmless until the car dealership guy got pissed off by whatever excuses you decline the deal !

Your response would show you don't take chances on anything.

The reality you speak of is a rigid, closed-minded world that has a tendency to discount and RAGE, as contributing editors here have noted.

Sport cars are fun and so are auditions of equipment you can't afford, no matter the rationalizations you put forth. It opens the ears, the eyes, the body and the mind. Pity.

Not intended to offend, are you too old to forget what I posted in Stereophile forums repeatedly, like I auditioned US$125,000 Audio Note Japan "Kegon" 17W+17W all-trioded power amp in its regional office studio which took me 15-hour non-stop flight to go there.

NO, I don't "take chances" like you, pal. 'Cause I know what I am doing. I know the very expensive tube power amp would sound good from its design topology. FYI, I design/build audios for decades. So I auditioned it there.

Likewise, how many times I mentioned here I make my easy money from the money markets. In fact I just mentioned it in this forum topic a while ago.

So am I taking chances day in day out with my money? To you maybe. Not to me as I know what & how to invest. FYI, the return of my half-a-million dollar investment, part of my mutual funds portflios, earned me 12% return end of last year.

So I got enough easy money to buy the $63,000 line-amp, right? How come I don't even want to audition it? I said clearly earlier here, & I tell you here again as you don't seem to have read it (giving you the benefit of doubt !): Technically & musically, any linestage with gain is redundant as it defies physics.

Enough said. Go bother somebody else who knows audio electronics as much as you do. Thanks but no thanks.

Listening with own ears is believing

So, the Audio Note for the same money is somehow a good value price in your application, but the Gryphon preamp is not.

Others would appreciate either component.

Everyone has a different design approach to their systems- all are valid, when you agree with them or not.

Last time I babysit you here on your audio, pal.

As georgehifi said it louds & clear: Gryphon is a very expensive switch box !!

The US$125,000 Audio Note Japan 'Kegon' is a POWER amp. We do NEED a power amp or an intergrated amp to work any loudspeakers. It could be a 10,000W class D solid state power amp or a 5W+5W all-tube power amp design/built by yours truly or whatever else. The MUST choice is yours.

BUT line-amplifiers is another story. Given all high-level programmes available handily, e.g. CD/DVD/tape player/DAC etc etc, with enough high output voltage/low enough impedance to drive any power amps directly. Line-amp's prime function is a swtich box.

This is the reason why georgehifi & your truly, among many others, go for passive linestages - for their musical & technical superiority.

My homebrew passive linestage is just like a "by-pass straight wire" (quoting Gordon Holt again) - zip harmonic & phase distortion.

Yes, "everyone has a different design approach to their systems". "All are valid" or not, it depends.

So you are bewitched by the $63,000 switch box?? Be my guest !

Listening with own ears is believing

and your language is rude and haughty. Mr. Holt never acted that way.

Re: Jack L "PASSIVE. I NEVER switch back to active mode for any high level program sources, like CD/DVD players, DAC, tuner & tape deck. On A/B switching to compare active vs passive, the passive mode music sounds sooo much more OPEN, livelike, see-thru transparent, detailed & PUNCHY playing at the same volume. By "punchy" I mean I can feel the latent energy inside the music fully released without sounding too loud !!!!"

You got that right Jack. Don't know what these glitz queens hear, they're too busy staring at their $$$$$$$ glitzy preamp purchase to listen. Cheers George

Not many rich & affordable got good ears like yours. They can only rely on the price tags - higher SHOULD provide better sound.

Too often those expensive audios are acquired as show pieces to enhance the owner's premises - vanity fair !!

To those rich & willing, spending $$$$$$$$$ is believing

"Have You Heard This Preamplifier?"

Really Michael!!! You shouldn't be able to hear the perfect preamp!!!!!!!!

compared to the Gryphon would be laughably colored and veiled and clouded and bandwidth limited, etc. etc etc.

Compare the two, then talk your trash. Otherwise, it's just rigidity speaking.

Who are "We" whom you said have compared a passive linestage vs Gryphon ?

and no comparisons have been made betwixt the two components, nor will they be.

Assertions will be made, however incorrectly.

Be nice to MF. It is his job to review whatever audios assigned to him/interested to him personally.

Unlike Gordon Holt, the then owner/publisher of Stereophile magazine, who did not worry offending patrons by doing the reveiw impartially instead of sales pitching.

Not many such audio papers could do that.

is mostly oriented towards asian markets nowadays. Hot money comes back, local jobs flourish, rich people get fooled.. what's not to like? It's a fun read too; nasty comments even more so, as long as *we* are not their primary target.

If I had enough money to buy this preamp I, to, would imagine that it sounds better. Just like Mike.

commenters. Unappreciative. Negative. Cynical. Nothing constructive to say. Have something to complain about the equipment, the reviewers. Ignorance about the role of magazines and what they do to stay in business to entertain a bunch of equipment lovers - not music lovers (music is never mentioned by the commenters but measurements and prices are.) Equipment lovers who think they know it all and can't stand the opinions of others. Can't take anything positive away from anything - the writing, the analysis and the reviewing process. Just projecting all their unconscious BS on others. Your collective MO translates as "HOW DARE SOMEONE LIKE SOMETHING I CAN'T AFFORD OR THAT IS DIFFERENT FROM MINE." Your jealousy and pettiness is just so transparent. It just doesn't stop and has become truly malicious and ugly. I hope the new editors ignore the sh-t out of you all and continue to review aspirational esoteric equipment that you will never afford. Read Consumer Reports. Start your own "Bargain Blog."

I thought it was a well-written and interesting review! And I tend to believe Mr Fremer's opinion that he did in fact hear slightly superior transparency versus his reference dartZeel pre. Of course absent a blind ABX the reader is left unable to have the utmost confidence. And echoing George's point, a quality passive pre (autoformers or LDR) should be more transparent than any active, so that would have been an interesting comparison.

That said, at this exceptional price point (far higher the top of the line for Audio Research or Conrad Johnson or Shindo), I look not so much for mere transparency as for some extra vitality, what some tube preamps can do. (call it musicality or tone boosting or whatever) Think Shindo or certain niche preamps with NOS tubes that add something delightful. Not exactly hi-fidelity, but I don't mind euphonic distortion. Aural catnip.

That additional musical enjoyment is absent from Mr Fremer's review of the Gryphon Commander.

I will do my best to write logicly. No sarcasm or offense intended.

The ever rising prices for Audio products is somewhat staggering. Few Luxus audio Brands are pushing retail prices threw the roof, knowing that they have to play the game for to stay in the game. Bigger, more expensive more exclusive is better right? I cannot blame them, it´s a tough world... Mucnich Highend is a perfect example of it. The more exclusive you are the more attention you get. So, is it the Consumer to blame? or the provider? maybe the guy (press) who is running in between to deliver us with information? Thank you Michael for all that you do!

Many many of us can see clearly through this ever expending bubble. Can you blame us for wanting to pop it?

You see, most of the Audiophile folks I personally know are high up on the food chain. Engineers, Elektro-engineers, Product Designers and so on... smart people in short. So we called the king naked We threw some tommatoes on him and now we wright Poems... Every person and his own way to deal with inflation.

Oooh, johnnythunder (the first unhinged comment above, not the second, more reasonable one) called us jealous. Ooooh, how will I ever go on with such an onerous insult hanging over my head? Am I a communist, too? BTW, I do have to give you credit for even posting this comment, because I thought you OD'd 30 years ago. (Others say it was leukemia and some even speculate you met with foul play. Presumably because of comments like this.)

Anyway, I WILL EXPLAIN TO YOU WHY WE ARE FED UP WITH $$$$ REVIEWS. It's NOT because we are jealous. It's because these reviews HAVE NO UTILITY for us. We will not be buying $63,000 switch boxes. Reviews like this take up staff mindshare that could be used to help guide us to stuff we will actually buy.

Why do you think people are going to the objectivist forum that shall not be named? It's not even because we are objectivists. (Indeed, nearly all SP readers have some subjectivist component.) It's because we want to read about affordable gear like that from Topping and Schiit. (Yes, I know they've reviewed a few Toppings and some affordable Elacs and Klipschs. But these are relatively few and far between; paradoxically they're like finding a nugget of gold amid the Hot Rock-priced audio blingware.)

Now excuse we while I go call Fidel and my other commie compadres to tell them that you've found me out and told the world about my jeeeeealllousy.

First all, here is an open venue open to yeasayers & naysayers.

Your above comment only shows that "Your jealousy & pettiness is just so transparent" as being a yeasayer who can't stand naysayers upfront & frank opinion.

I do not see any naysayers in this forum topic ever quoted they "know it all". Only you accused them being so, apparently due to your own inferior complex or the like.

Even though I know how to design/build a linestage with "straight-line bypass" feature (quoting Gordon Holt) with zip harmonic/phase distortion etc etc, I never ever quote myself being "know-all". So please do not put your words in those naysayers' mouths, Mr. Thunder ! Much appreciated.

Listening with own ears is believing

Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this. So Gryphon is rather expensive and not Audacious Audio, with the Topping preamp clocking in at ~1% of the Gryphon's price tag.

It’s funny how every time I read these comment sections regarding ultra Hiend components being reviewed the whiners come out and hijack the comment sections. Get a life, find some happiness because we don’t give a …. what you think!

It's the other way around. It's you high-enders who need to get a life. Nobody with any brains thinks a 63K preamp makes any sense. Read that sentence over and over and over again. Do you get it now?

So, you're cross shopping both the Gryphon and another (cheaper-but-equal) preamp and arrived at this conclusion?

What about a McLaren with $13k in painted-in racing stripes and $20k in carbon fiber options "makes sense"? But car mags fly off the shelves and they don't have people like you getting angry with "why don't you review the new Dacia Sendero!"

If you're cross shopping this Gryphon with another vastly cheaper preamp and arrived at the informed conclusion that it's not worth it, that's totally fine. If you're just guessing about how it performs and cannot afford the Gryphon, you're adding to the SNR in a negative way. It's that simple.

Imagine showing up to a wine tasting behaving like this....

I spend more listening than talking; “I think that’s what sets you and I apart”!

Just want to say I enjoy reading about your reviews on ultra Hiend equipment. Even though I can’t afford to buy it ( at least not retail ) I still feel it’s worth my time to educate myself on what the leading edge has to offer. Please post more reviews regarding cost no object components. Maybe you could start separate magazines. One dedicated to low to mid hifi and the other to hiend to ultra hiend?

Yes, please continue to review the Good Stuff. I have an older high-end SACD player that bought used. I never could have afforded it new, but I love it.

Agreed!!!! I love reading about true benchmark, High End equipment!

Sound and Vision used to be under the same umbrella if they aren't still. They review PLENTY of inexpensive stuff.

It feels like half the commenters here are subscribed to the wrong periodical.

What engineer for this company thought that for a $63k preamp that clipping at 2V balanced would be ok? Sure, at 4V it is still respectable performance, but it’s just head scratching. Some amps even need more than 4V to achieve max wattage, as they use low gain input buffers (or none at all) in order to maximize performance.

"Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this."

Yes but the yeasayers will tell you there's some sort of voodoo/magic been done inside the Gryphon that can't be measure or seen.

...but I strongly suspect you do not, that not one person in this unfortunate thread of comments has so much as hinted at that, George, meaning that your insulting drive-by remark, like a number of similar comments from the usual suspects, have inverted the argument. In order to smear people you don't know on the subject of a product you have no experience with following the work of the experienced, qualified reviewer you just slandered, you, like so many fellow so-called objectivists resorted to that same transparently-false canard.

The objectivist canard begins with the unfounded, unbacked, and flatly ignorant conclusion that a suite of measurements of just X, Y, and Z perfectly and completely speak for the real sound of a device. You leave that assumption unchallenged and so that you can gate-keep and take scalps and generally behave poorly in public while you demonstrate that ignorance and gross incivility.

It is the objectivist's purported argument, and not the reviewer and not the civil commenter's argument, that relies on magic and voodoo, whatever you mean by that, in a priori erecting the notion that you know how a device sounds. It's your assertion that lacks a proper foundation. And it's your assumption that you know what clearly you do not that manifests as the problem, not the listeners and not the thoughtful reader who simply understands that yes, we don't know what it sounds or smells or tastes or looks like until we personally take it in.

In fact, it's this argument you make - addressing the broader topic now - that becomes a logical conundrum, a non sequitur, and a facade, when it tacitly expects to demand the proof of a negative; the existence of a phenomenon - that of sound, which is why we do audio after all - when you, as the corollary of your obvious error that we can measure sound, demand of others that they endure all the many objectivist abuses and for them, produce evidence of a phenomenon that by your own tacit admission, does not exist.

That is a profoundly unscientific and un-objective position to take, but it is the root of the objectivist cant and dogma. It is the core of the deeply ignorant assumption, an assumption that ends in wild and wildly uncivil assertions like yours and these, that others can't experience, mayn't try, are frauds, and here in the anonymous comments section of a free online publication, must perform for you.

Your kind expect the world to perform for you to fulfill your biases, and when they naturally don't, you abuse them while in effect you demean the pursuit of recreating the sound of music for the elevated purpose and state of mind that pursuit brings.

That's a terrible argument and it's a terrible thing that unexamined behavior does to the audio high end. It's comments threads like this that have me biting my tongue until I can't stay quiet any longer. It's displays like these that have any rational, civil reader hoping the editors just close the comments entirely. And displays of this hostile ignorance and rush to abuse that has me fearing for the pastime.

The statement that "the Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this" [sic] is in fact a direct and bald-faced admission of that ignorance. It is untrue but it and others like it is motivated by an active pursuit of that ignorance aimed at just this problem we have in these exchanges. I didn't want to point that out before but I will now, way down in the basement of this stupid thread.

This preamplifier is, as the Editor himself documented and reported, one of the finest he's measured in his very long and quite capable career with this journal. The notion that it's bested, in any conceivable, meaningful way, by a cheap speedline import aimed solely at cheap numbers marketed toward easily-led consumers of such peripheral things, transparently preposterous.

Fine audio is worth protecting. Man up, grow up, and do better. Self-satisfied objectivists haven't found the slightest fraction of the magic elixir of technical truth you give all indications you think you have, one hundreds of years of journalistic excellence somehow missed in their promotion of "voodoo and magic". All you've outed is the obvious fantastic weakness of that miserable, ignorant, and uncivil assertion.

Go buy something else, listen to something else, read and critique something your own speed, and at least act like a reasonable consumer you seem to want to be seen to be. It's not working among your betters.

The above post may be the most misinformed and illogical thing I have ever read in my life. It would take far more time and effort than I wish to devote to this thread to point out the numerous delusions, misconceptions and fallacies in this post.

...is informed by decades of multidisciplinary research and hands-on experience. It has such an impeccable logic to it that apparently you'd find it uncomfortable to engage it on merits. Any of it.

But I'm happy to also bank the amusing slander of 'delusion' as your reputation's best shot.

Which was "that post" you are talking about ?

I got the impression you are barking up the wrong tree until now, pal.

Georgehifi & yours truly were talking about the technical & sonic issue of a linestage with gain & without gain (passive) vs prices. This is the manufacturer-vendors issue.

Not finger-pointing at whoever did the review of whatever audios here. It is the job of the reviewer to do the review of component, good or bad irrespective. So why keep on bitching us for insulting your great heroic "the best audio reporters in the business' with "one hundreds (?) of years of journalistic excellence" ????????

My decades of analogue music enjoyment (1,000+ LPs) & my decades of audio amps design/built hands-on experience (including truly "straight-line bypass" passive linestages) back up what I have stated here in this forum topic.

Listening to music with own ears, not sales pitches, is believing.

PS: Your heroic audio reporter is reportedly leaving for the other strong compeition audio journal. Why don't you join him there???

Yes, just like priceless historic paintings framed up in the museums.

Yet fine consumers are "worth protecting" too, right ? $63,000 is a lot of money for ordinary audio Joe Blows. Indeed such money can buy bread & better to feed many many starving people in poor countries.

So you have problem with "worth protecting" fine consumers by accusing them biasing! So what, this is $63,000 bias against profiteering makers/vendors.

What is musicality of this $63,000 switch box with gain to do with its finest measurement ever documented & reported by the Editor ?

So you ASSUME best measurement would warrant best sounding ?? Sorry I don't from my aural experience.

Yea, George biased against & YOU bias fowards the same expensive merchandise. "Fine audio" or fine consumers should "worth protecting more ??

...a bias favoring expensive components for the sake of price, Jack. Never have. See the comment you replied to; I favor fine audio. Since I've always made it clear that sound is the goal, fine audio is defined by its tremendous sound.

From there I naturally favor fine audio's legitimate reporters, while I dismiss the irrationality and gross technical shortcomings of low-level attacks, especially those that guilt by price or abuse true knowledge.

Not much exemplifies that last category better than tossed-off comments in free threads hosted by the best audio reporters in the business. And the worst of *those* comments rob a stranger of their intent, project another motivation against them, and declare victory.

For exposing the illogical ignorance and fallacies purported by the usual suspects who never stick to a single argument nor admit when their argument has no validity or strays so vastly from their assertions.

It is disingenuous to use expensive component examples for to justify their own arguments and then decrying another example of expensive equipment simply because it doesn't fit their own dogmatic biases.

Worse yet they pretend they are trying to protect other consumers from buying expensive equipment. This is despite the fact anyone purchasing this type of gear would already have amassed much knowledge of this hobby and the product before purchasing.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/pix.iemoji.com/images/emoji/apple/ios-12/256/thu... To the above David Harper post

And to the post above that one. Submitted by JHL "The statement that "the Topping Pre90 as a much better choice, every single measurement confirms this" [sic]"

And it wasn't even me that posted this, that's how much is absorbed by this reader.

Michael Fremer is moving to The Absolute Sound. Lucky guy! He won't have to put up anymore with the craziness and rudeness that goes on under the comments section of Stereophile.

He'll suit it, no measurements done over there, just poetic licence reviewing.

Readers that can analyse JA's measurements, can usually draw compassion lines to what some better listening reviews say.

https://www.tonepublications.com/industry-news/a-box-of-nothing-from-mcintosh/

The joke is on us consumers

Well, that just destroyed my opinion of McIntosh.

However, let's not tar the whole industry with the same brush. A lot of companies are run by folks who are first and foremost passionate about music and who aren't in it to squeeze as much money out of consumers as they possibly can.

It's up to us, the consumers, to do our homework and exercise our judgement.

Judge its sound & function instead of price !!!!

You wouldn't buy it, clearly.

For someone that has spent thousands on a full Mac rig, $200 is nothing. An LED system with Mac branding and the level of Mac casework required is certainly reasonable- for a McIntosh customer.

According to Mcintosh website. Eagerly waiting for the review and measurements.

If it didn't fit the customer base, it wouldn't sell.

Glotz, you obviously haven't read the Tone post. According to the article, the box costs $1500, not $200. Of course, at $200 it could make sense, I guess; esthetically speaking, that is. They also talk about McIntosh wooden boards that are being sold at an unconscionable price. It's actually the boards that bother me more than the light box. In any case, whatever one thinks of this, it's good policy to read the article before commenting.

Yeah my bad. I skimmed the article. I re-read it after the last poster corrected me. Oh look, a poster that admits a mistake!

$1500 is terrible!! Grrrrrr. Lol.. not really.

Lastly, Jeff D sounds like an absolute ranting child the way he went off on the product. Pure embarrassment for a professional writer.

If you have pride of ownership and $40,000 in Mac gear, $1500 isn't going to break the bank to have additional Mac pride.

You shouldn't let it bother you... It's not even available anymore!

There are tons of watches, pens, shoes, stereos, cars and a million other expensive products out there that we can't afford. For Boomers with expendable income, this is their hobby and enjoyment. Can't put a price on happiness, bro.

And the sell out of this product proves it.

Michael.... IGNORE ALL THIS STATIC. As you well know, this is just so many sphincters whining, with ZERO knowledge or understanding. Almost ALL of these Nay Sayers are just spewing nonsense... I will reiterate two points I’ve made in print for decades now, and that I suspect we both agree upon.

One - Until you've ACTUALLY heard something, you have no possible way to know or understand what it sounds like, and therefore, you can have NO OPINION on its sound!

Two - Price alone is NOT a clear indicator of performance. I’ve heard some HORRENDOUS sounding very expensive products. But, by that same token, the finest performance available today is not cheap.

Cool it! Why you've gone so peronal as if Mike were your kissing cousin

This is a public forum open to comments, positive or negative. FYI, this is the job of the reviewers to review & report subject to response of their readers. The review-response system works this way since day one. Nothing personal about who reviewed what !!

Now you claim the naysayers here got "ZERO knowledge & understanding blah blah blah.. How do YOU know ???? Substantiate yr such accussation, please.

FYI in case you missed it: As one of the naysayers for this linestage topic, I design/built truly straight-line-bypass passive linestages many years back for pure music lovers. I am using one myself.

My question to YOU: do you know anything about design/building a line-preamp ?? If you don't, you got SUB-ZERO knowledgw & understanding about it. Better keep it to yourself instead telling the whole world how sooo "smart" you are !!!

Jack L. Yet again you show how easily you are confused and lose focus.

My comments had absolutely nothing to do with the design, or the sound, of anything, including the Gryphon Commander or any line stage, for that matter.

Rather, my comments were aimed at those who railed at the prospect that such an expensive price was somehow either unjustified, or couldn’t possible offer better performance than a less costly product WITHOUT having as much as heard it. I notice that you TOTALLY IGNORED both of my tenets – first, that if you haven’t heard something, you cannot have a valid opinion of how it sounds. Second, while price alone is not a direct indicator of performance, the best performance available today is not cheap!

Clearly you were so incensed by thinking you were part of the Nay Sayers I was mentioning that you chose to leap before you looked.

As to “substantiating” my position, if you don’t recognize my name, you clearly haven’t been in or around this industry very long. Michael is an old and respected colleague. You might want to do some research before you ask such silly questions.

I’ve been involved in this industry for over fifty years, and have been consulting (as a designer), writing about, reviewing, covering shows and events, contributing to authoritative books, and interviewing industry leaders for over thirty-five years. I’ve written for and edited a number of publications including the audio analyst©, Positive Feedback (in print and online), SoundStage!, The Stereo Times, Enjoy the Music, TONEAudio, and The Absolute Sound – where Michael started his audio writing career in the Sept/Oct 1986 issue, Vol. 11/Issue 42.

Sorry, your very substantial resume does not save your day, pal. Instead it only shows us the background of your sheer arrogance in accusing the naysayers in this forum topic as "ZERO knowledge & understanding".

I never yet commented your 2 tenets as I put my "focus" first at your insulting our fellow readers. Showing your ego of being "50 years in "this industry", right ?

With yr claim of decades experience in reviewing, how come you still have not learned the principle of reviewing & reporting - impartial & impersonal. Mike obviously understands his role of being an impartial & impersonal reviewer as so far in this topic, he has not shown any burst of temper like you clearly showed us all !!!

Soung like you got up out the wrong side of the bed, you need a coffee to cool it down !

PS: I am going to get on your two tenets later, particulary the 2nd one. Don't worry !

"Instead it only shows us the background of your sheer arrogance in accusing the naysayers in this forum topic as "ZERO knowledge & understanding".

You just don't get it... Like all posers, you are focused on the wrong things... Instead of trying to ignore my points, the reality is that all the Nay Sayers HAVE NEVER HEARD THE PRODUCT UNDER CONDISERATION. Thier opinion, which is both uninformed and ignorant, is the issue here. Yet you have no comprehension of the reality of the situation...

You, and your hyper flawed misunderstanding of, and arguments ignoring, the issues under discussion (no REALLY!) show your inability to understand the art and essence of debate. And in fact, you've really dropped your pants to show your unsupportable position. It is just such misunderstanding and arrogance that has conspired to keep me from even trying to reason with the trolls and agitators out there - posers just like you!

Please feel free to waste someone else's time with your evasion and unsupportable stances... No, REALLY. You're not even aware of how clueless you are... Enjoy your time huffing and puffing...I'm sure you enjoy that. ;-)

I could not agree more. This is a forum for certain people to pretend they are the only ones that matter to audio reproduction.

Moreover, they do it in a cowardly fashion by adding insults and assumptions about everyone and everything, while never questioning their own flimsy positions. 'Cooling it' really applies to him only.

Thanks Greg, been reading your work with TAS for years.

How are you so sure ALL naysayers NEVER heard the $63,000 switch box? Have you done such a survey or just blined guessing ?

My question to YOU: have you ever audition it ??????

If YES, you should have put forth your aural impression of this expensive switch box to compare with Mike F's review instead of whining !!!! Do something positve to us readers here rather venting your spreen here !

If NO, "you have really dropped your pants to show" us all yr shady hypocrisy. Shame !!!

One might be knowledgeable like the Almighty, but still one has no right to condemn whoever else "ZERO knowledge & understanding".

This is PEROSNAL attack, IMO, being unCIVIL & should be deleted from this civil venue.

Hello Glotz, and thanks for your clear expression of what is going on here with this insecure and uniformed poser...

I had meant to respond to, and applaud, your earlier post...

"These comments are out of line Submitted by Glotz on June 20, 2022 - 11:58am All of them are insulting and completely ignorant.

None of you have heard this preamp and have no idea of what you are talking about."

And honestly, I thought your above post was the first to get the whole point here. Dislike, deny, and doubt any product all you want. But if you haven't heard it, you have no ability, or right, to express an opinion on how that unheard product sounds. While I've no issues with statements such as, "Well, given my experience I don't believe it could...," or "I just don't see how it might be...," beyond that, until you've heard it, just keep yer trap shut.

Thanks for your support over the years, stay grounded, and safe! ;-)

Hallo GregWeaver I appreciate your stand and your opinion. But, I will position myself carefully at the naysayers group. I do know that certain products are trying to push the limits of what is possible and so on and I will repeat what I formally wrote: The ever rising prices for Audio products is somewhat staggering. Few Luxus audio Brands are pushing retail prices threw the roof, knowing that they have to play the game for to stay in the game. Bigger, more expensive more exclusive is better right? I cannot blame them, it´s a tough world... Munich Highend is a perfect example of it. The more exclusive you are the more attention you get. So, is it the Consumer to blame? or the provider? maybe the guy (press) who is running in between to deliver us with information?

Many many of us can see clearly through this ever expending bubble. Can you blame us for wanting to pop it?

I know it’s your place to deliver the news and the goods… yet. Haven’t we gone a step too far. Especially in these times of war, is there really a place for such luxury when some of do not have a home to return to? Cars, and other luxury products are sharing the same fate or so it seems. I do write with a tear in one eye… yet I do not consider myself a whiner.

BINGO ! Well said calm & cool !

Yet many here don't have a clue. They just WHINE about whoever don't pay same flattery compliment to their favourite reviewers by accusing them having "ZERO knowledge & understanding".

I wish Gordon Holt is still around here !

This will be my last post on this ridiculous thread.

Jack L. - you clearly cannot, or choose not to, comprehend what you read.

Indeed! Your personal attack to us readers here have made this forum topic "ridiculous" !

Quiting won't save your pants here, pal.

Before you quit, I hereby request you again to answer my very up-to-the-topic question which you try to ignore:-

You have ever auditioned this $63,000 line-amp ??

I had genuin intrest in your response. I was not planning with "waste of time" and "ridiculouse". A shame really.

https://tinyurl.com/yc5a7dnn

I am reading this article right now while listening through my Threshold PCR1 modular preamplifier and Threshold SA12e monoblocks to the the same Grant Green's Idle Moments Album mentioned in this review. I couldn’t enjoy the music and this moment more. Just to mention I am only 36 years old and wondering why some comments (from persons with years of designing and building experience) are so childish or rude. Thanks Michael for your review.

Best regards from Germany, Karl

Man, I would love to hear the Apex/Commander combination drive a pair of Magico M9's...